A Word about Christian marital discipline
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous; nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them, which are exercised thereby.
Hebrews 12:11, KJB
There are many websites of Christian organisations advocating spanking as the path to a happy marriage and even more blogs of couples (almost always American) who have taken this to heart.
The passage, taken from that wonderful and great work of poetry the King James Authorised Bible, seems to have graced the pages of a few of them.
A recent TV show that set out to investigate spanking in marriage among the Americans of the Mid West, had a deadly serious interview with an earnest, if visually unwholesome, middle-aged couple who were of the opinion that the world would be saved if only more men spanked their wives.
Is this a token or symbolic submission of the wife to the husband, they were asked, although using a more rural friendly vocabulary. No the reporter was assured. To paraphrase the conversation went something like this.
“She’s gotta feel it, she’s gotta mind you. You find out something, a switch, a shoe, whatever she doesn’t like much and set to with that,” the man drawled.
“That’s right,” his wife agreed. “Only on the bottom though,” she adds.
He nods and they both exchange loving looks.
“It’s the place the lord provided for it,” he says with what looks to all the world like a California top’s grin.
“Amen,” she says.
Is this a serious philosophy or comic cuts? To some in a nice liberal urban developed country, reading this provokes mixed feelings and emotions. One can’t help wondering that if the documentary makers had picked a more articulate and attractive couple, the comedy would have been removed, leaving us with a more thought provoking programme.
There are certainly enough of them around. One influential website on Christian domestic discipline, or CDD as it is called, sagely quotes divorce statistics that ‘prove’ spanking saves marriages, reduces crime and leads to spiritual well-being.
The case studies read no differently from their secular counterparts, men and women being honest about themselves and their libidos are more likely find harmony in their relationships. Perhaps the religious dimension is needed to justify what they might otherwise be forced to considered a perversion.
Perhaps all the statistics prove, if they prove anything, is that happy people stay married, have well balanced kids and don’t commit crimes.
While you consider, let’s finish on this snippet.
Barbara G, a vicar’s wife from Wiltshire, England, writes:
I have been married to my husband for over 26 years. When we got married it was impressed upon me that we had to set an example and had certain standards to keep up.
I was terrified, and told my husband so. He was reassuring as ever and so wise. He told me that he would punish me if I fell from grace. He made it clear that I would be spanked as I was at home by parents for any transgressions.
In fact over the years it has been his practice to ask to see me after the service on Sunday to ‘finish up and deal with certain matters,’ as he always says when I am to be punished.
Then when the organist, verger and other parishioners have gone to our village pub or home to their families, I am taken into the vestry and have to bend over to bare my bottom.
I usually get 10 to 15 strokes with a thin stick, which sting appallingly, but I cannot say they are not deserved.
This happens about once a month or so, with smacked bottoms at home in between. I have often thought if anyone else knows given the relatively public nature of my punishment. Sometimes the lady who does the flowers looks at me in a strange way.
Filed under: articles, discussion, TV, web round-up | 17 Comments
Tags: marital discipline, religion, spanking
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A Voice in the Corner 
I’ve seen the video clip you’re referring to. It’s from Australian TV and it’s from John Safran’s “Race Relations” programme. In the pre-amble you see him in the studio with a pretty blonde woman intimating to her that he’s about to take her up on an offer she made to him once at a party or something — he’s going to spank her. Actually he pretends he’s going to spank her for calling him up and telling him that she saw a DVD of his program in the remainders bin in some store (implying that it didn’t sell well) — now that’s creative bratting, if you ask me.
She blushes rather sweetly when she hears that John wants to spank her. I wonder if she realizes at the time that she’s going to have to go all the way to America with him to collect that spanking though. Here’s a blog post about it: http://ideafix7.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/kristen-condon-gets-spanked-on-safrans-race-relations/
Unfortunately the ABC clip linked from there doesn’t seem to be up any longer. It did seem that the point of the program was more to make fun of the silly Americans and maybe to embarrass his ex-girlfriend than to seriously explore the role of discipline in relationships. Still, it was at least a nod to those of the spanko persuasion, and highly entertaining for everyone I’m sure.
The actual spanking was off camera and D.J., you give a pretty good account of the Americans’ suggestions and commentary. I wonder what their advice would have been for the case in which you have to deal with a woman who enjoys being spanked, as seemed to have been the case with John’s ex-girlfriend.
With a little more looking, I found that video clip. Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8I1Yr04g5c
Thanks I think you are right – but I couldn’t fing it.
Actually I have seen a lot in the same vein – so it may have been another interview – but the others did not have Ms Condon being spanked 😉
DJ
Not at all politically correct, thanks Heaven: I will marry only a well raised young woman, who has never looked for sex outside marriage and who wants to follow traditional roles and Christian DD in the family to build with her own husband.
giorgio.imzadi@gmail.com
Speaking as an American, I am afraid I have to admit that Americans can be a bit nutty about religion. There are so many religiously connected ideas, some nutty right on the surface and some whose nuttiness only becomes apparent when one investigates below the seeming normality. And I am talking about normal, mainstream Americans.
It must come with the history. Our country was founded by quirky little groups of outcast religious zealots that were too bizarre for you folks in Northern Europe and too bizarre for each other. Other than the Quakers, an outspoken but relatively peaceful bunch with mutual respect between the genders, there was nothing that our forefathers liked more than putting sinners in their place (Must have missed that part in the Bible about “Ye who is without sin cast the first stone.”)
It was a male-dominated world. Women who were not chaste, submissive, obedient, etc, etc could find themselves in the public square in the pillory with “nag” or “shrew” on a card hung around the neck. Nothing was as popular as a public switching of a woman of fallen virtue. The gender inequality, much of which still persists in subtle and underground ways, was the norm in early America. So these nutty people come by it honestly.
As a student in California [specific ID info edited here], I was trying to find some palatable elective for my humanities requirement. I chose “American Intellectual History.” Take it from me, in agony the entire semester: All Americans ever thought about was religion!
I will also mention seeing a print of a painting done in colonial times that showed a wife over her husband’s lap being spanked rathr immodestly while the couple’s young children played around them, taking no notice whatsoever. This suggests to me that CDD came over here with the Mayflower. Want any of these nutjobs back on your side of the Atlantic?
I realized that perhaps I should add that I believe the CCD crowd is most likely just looking for some rationalization and Biblical justification for simply wanting to have a little kinky sex, a definite no-no otherwise. And, in keeping with their religious nuttiness, they are not content to quietly do it in the privacy of their own homes but need everyone else to believe as they believe and do as they do– in the finest tradition of Christian zealotry. [yes – a point made in the article I think Ed.]
BTW, I am a Christian myself, Roman Catholic the last 10 years. And my relationship with God is between me and him. And the truth is that a consensual, rather than dogmatic, version of the relationship described by CDD does appeal. If I found a genie in a bottle, I might ask for a warm, affectionate Dom and husband with a good sense of humor who demanded some accountability. But because I wanted that, not because God has ordained that all people on Earth must live in a way that satisfied my particular spanko kink. What can I say?
Probably the physically present but totally absent father during childhood? Certainly not God’s Word.
As someone who grew up Catholic in the 50s and 60s and attended Catholic school, I can certainly attest that at my school the staff and principal were most zealous in their devotion to corporal punishment, at least for kids from Grades 1 through 8.
However, the subject of marital discipline did not come up in our curriculum, though we were cautioned not to put ourselves in romantic situations, such as with a person of the opposite sex in a convertible in the moonlight at night.
Once a month at school they showed us movies, typically some Disney production featuring Hayley Mills behaving, and clearly deserving of a spanking, even if the movie didn’t show her getting one. I’m thinking of “The Parent Trap”, for instance.
Good comment. One cannot justify it from the word. More honest to own your kink. In reality it is not anyone else’s business but between the spouses. I personally get my wife to do it to me and I have learned to not bother trying to get approval from anyone else so long as my wife is okay with it.
CDD was the website I read when I first started looking. Some of it was a little more preachy than I cared for but it really had a lot of good information for anyone starting out in a DD relationship for both Head of House and submissive. They used husband and wife references.
I’ve seen that clip before and agree they were just looking to make fun of the couple. I am surprised that none of the American magazine type shows like 60 minutes or 20/20 havn’t done a story on it. They have realty shows on the Morman sister wives, the little people, gay couples, etc. I think it would spark a lot of interest, both pro and con.
Oh, goodness. Or badness. Or something. It was the “visually unwholesome” thing that got me. I couldn’t forget that part when the husband was saying he spanked the wife with “something,” maybe a shoe. (A shoe?!) [I was paraphrasing as I couldn’t find the excerpt again, Thanks Karl. Did he actually say that?]
I think you nailed it when you said “Perhaps the religious dimension is needed to justify what they might otherwise be forced to considered a perversion.” I think it’s alarming when people claim religion is the reason they do anything, [Amen] spanking included. Or perhaps I mean spanking especially. [or is that Alleullia – I would hate to get it wrong and go to Hell]
Good post, DJ!
BTW the [angle brackets] are inserted comments by me.
I have heard similar views expoused in the UK by Christians but rarely do they want to go on TV and chat about their ‘life style. Perhaps in the US the TV validate sthem in some way.
DJ
In America, they will put anything and everything on television.
I think Christian Marital discipline is people acting kinky and using the bible to try and justify that.
Old stinky stuff.
I think who knows the Bible and wants to live according to its teachings, kows much better than heathen who speak without knowledge nor respect of what they cant’ know or understand.
An astonishingly patronising view of CDD. I suppose you feel able to mock the couple because they are ignorant and inarticulate and after all only Christians. You may not have a religious belief yourself but you have no right to mock those that do. By the way has it actually crossed your narrow mind that the religion may be the reason for the marital CP and not simply be an excuse for something you do? No I thought not.
Hey slow down 🙂
First it is impolite to ask somone a question and then project the answer upon them.
Second I was not mocking CDD – I was mocking the show that set out to mock CDD. Witness: One can’t help wondering that if the documentary makers had picked a more articulate and attractive couple, the comedy would have been removed, leaving us with a more thought provoking programme.
It is unlikely that anyone who was a champion of CDD would have picked this couple to speak for them.
in the third place CDD sites do make an argument that CDD solves many ills and it is fair comment to say:
The case studies read no differently from their secular counterparts, men and women being honest about themselves and their libidos are more likely find harmony in their relationships. Perhaps the religious dimension is needed to justify what they might otherwise be forced to considered a perversion.
One could equally say that perhaps they don’t. I am sure that there are many different attitudes.
I do have to say that I am always wary of anyone who claims a justification for their behaviour from a higher power – whoever or whatever that power might be and there are plenty of Christians out there who want to shut down blogs such as this, including CDD sites, which may well be a difficult circle to square in you are a Christian.
I say anyone is at liberty to believe what they want to believe – I can’t help but feel that you have taken all my doubts and negative comments regarding the poor programme I was criticising and assuming they were directed against Christianity in general and CDD in particular.
yours DJ Black
Correct, I do think that.
Are you a well raised (ie. traditional DD) Christian (in deeds) young woman in your late 20s or first 30s?
If 100% true, a marriage not forgetting “Christian marital discipline” is what could be hoped for both, asap.